Many people reject this and argue that, regardless of the nature of a culture, there are certain universal moral truths. All life is sacred, for example, or all people should be treated as equals; eating other human beings or committing incest is sinful and must be condemned, no matter what was considered 'normal' in the civilizations being discussed.
These are important factors to discuss when making judgments about citizens of totalitarian regimes. We all like to think of ourselves as decent 'good' people that would never have supported a man like Hitler or belonged to a regime such as Nazi Germany's. We would never have voted for the National Socialists; never have joined the party; never have turned in a friend or neighbor or family member for opposing the party; never have believed that Jews or Gypsies were subhuman and supported their extermination; never have supported eugenics and had your child euthanized due to genetic conditions; never have supported a continent-wide war in order to spread the dominance of your nation.But how accurate is that self-portrait? Germans were considered a very cultured people prior to World War II. They produced composers like Bach, Beethoven and Mozart. Great scientists, sculptors, philosophers, authors and painters abounded like nowhere else. So how could they possibly have allowed themselves to support a crude, violent and bigoted man such as Hitler? And, even more difficult to understand, how could they have actively worked to participate in his policies such as genocidal anti-Semitism, euthanasia or book-burning?
Think about what was going on in Germany at the time. Could that have played a role? Look at who supported Hitler and why in your notes and handouts. For more information, check out this article. Where would you have been in the list and what might you have thought? Try to put yourself back in that time.
Would you have been one of the few that stood up to Hitler and the Nazis? The picture above is of August Landmesser, a German shipyard worker who stood up against the regime and paid the price for it. Go here in order to learn his story. Another dissenter who died for her views was Sophie Scholl (right). Go here to find out about her defiance to the tyranny of the Nazis.Consider what you know about the Nazi regime and how it gained power. In the comments section below, please answer the following questions: If you lived in Germany during the 1930s, would you have supported the Nazis? If the answer is yes, would you have been active in that support (being a part of the party, been anti-Semitic, an informer for the Gestapo etc.)? If the answer is no, would you have actively attempted to resist the regime as Landmesser or Scholl did? Or would you have remained silent? Remember that this is not a comment on who you are today.
If I were a pure Aryan in Germany at this point in history I would most likely support the Nazi regime. The policies of the Nazi party gave German citizens hope for a better future at a time of desperation which would make me feel a sense of nationalism for my country. Also the Nazi's would favor me as a citizen and therefore I would have no reason to resent the party. Although I have morally no tolerance for discrimination, the policies which segregate Aryans from other races would force me into a society where there is no exposure to the real motives of the Nazi regime. On the other hand I would not actively participate in book burnings or informing Gestapo because I'd ultimately have a sense of compassion for treating other groups poorly. Granting some resentment I would not protest because individually I would want to hold onto a good standard of living and the ideology that my nation is strong and superior.
ReplyDeleteProficient.
DeleteYou certainly seem to understand the issues that led people to support the Nazis.
This a very loaded question, and I will try to answer without allowing my modern perspective to influence it. However, I will allow my gender and ethnic background to be present as did not choose them nor are they influenced by my surroundings.
ReplyDeleteHow would the Nazis have viewed me? I'm 1/2 German, 1/4 Estonian, and 1/4 Canadian (French/Irish) by blood. Although their citizenship laws emphasized German blood, It should be noted that Alfred Rosenberg, the top racial theorist for the Nazis was 1/2 German, 1/4 Estonian, and a 1/4 Latvian. He was considered a German citizen. There was plenty of leeway for Non-Jewish mixes to be citizens. Both of Hitler's chauffeurs were of a non pure German descent. Erich Kempka was half Polish. He was a full SS member and citizen and received multiple honours from the extremely racist Himmler. The other chauffeur was Emil Maurice who was 1/8 Jewish and he was considered a German citizen and was also SS member #2 (much to Himmler's dismay). Under Nazi German law, I would've been considered an Aryan citizen.
Would I have been a Nazi? Yes, I would've been a party member. It afforded perks such as nicer houses and less suspicion from the SD. I also would've loved the job security Hitler promised, as well as the free education for my children if I couldn't afford it, and healthcare. Being an Aryan male these polices were made to benefit me. Knowing that I could count on my national brothers, drive on nice highways, and get vacation time, would all be perks to being a Nazi.
Would I have been an Anti-Semite? This is impossible to answer. I don't know what my parents would've taught me about the Jews. What societies overall view of the Jews was. I don't know if I would've had Jewish friends, been attracted to a Jewish girl etc. My understanding is there was two main reasons for Anti-Semitism; the reality that they lived in their own communities, dressed a certain way and didn't really integrate into mainstream society (which is true for the more religious ones but not the reformed ones), and that they had more wealth/power than the average folk for being such a minority. I can understand both points and see how they still hold true in the modern day views of Jews and many other groups. I certainly don't think I would've been alright with the indiscriminate slaughter or second-class treatment though.
Would I have been an informer to the Gestapo? Ha, probably not unless they asked me to because I generally don't like tattling on other people. I wouldn't really care if people talked trash about the Führer in their private time as long as they were still good citizens and didn't hurt anyone.
Book burnings? I might've participated in a book burning as part of a mob-like situation. But I generally don't believe in censorship.
Excellent.
DeleteThis is an impressive bit of meta-analysis that shows good understanding of the issues of the time. One comment: don't allow the idea of Maurice being 1/8 Jewish to mitigate the fact that Nazi policy clearly identified such people as Jews and thus subject to rejection by the Aryan state. He was a clear exception to the rule due to being an old friend of Hitler. If not for the Fuehrer's personal intervention, Himmler (as you seem to recognize) would have had him arrested as were the vast majority of such 'mischlings'.
You're correct about Emil being an exception because of his relationship with Hitler, and certainly without that recommendation he wouldn't have been allowed to stay in the SS. However, the SS had very strict racial guidelines that required Aryan ancestry back to 1800 and sometimes as far back as 1750. Being a Reich citizen was not nearly as stringent.
ReplyDeleteThere is no such Nazi policy that I was able to find that delegated 1/8 Jews as Jews. 1/2 Jews were Mischlings of the first degree and could be fairly easily designated as Geltungsjude (Full Jews) if they married a Jew or practiced the religion. They were still technically Reich citizens though and could hold some positions with many even serving in the Wehrmacht. 1/4 Jews were deemed Mischlings of the second degree and while still subject to some job discrimination were not in threat of being deported/arrested. In fact, as the Nuremberg Laws state on that infamous marriage pie chart, 1/4 Jews were forbidden to marrying Full Jews, and even other 1/4 Jews. They were required to marry Full Germans as 1/8 Jews were deemed Deutschblütig (German blooded) by law.
Here is the primary source. Pay close attention to the Deutschblütiger and Mischling 2nd Degree marriage requirements.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#/media/File%3ANuremberg_laws.jpg
Thank you for taking the time to read this. Let me know if you a conflicting source which indicates otherwise. I'm very fascinated with this topic.
I think that you are correct and my math was wrong. My definition was that 1/8 Jew meant 1 grandparent, but, of course, that isn't accurate. According to the Nuremburg Laws, if one had a single Jewish grandparent, you were a Mischling 2nd degree. This was, of course, the rumour about Hitler.
DeleteThat Hitler had much political and social support from early on is clear, and when I view the list of who supported Hitler, and for what reasons, I'm quite sure that I would have fallen in on the side of supporters. The economic atmosphere at the time was one of desperation- there were many factors contributing to this including Germany having to pay massive reparations according to the Treaty of Versailles, the Great Depression, high rates of unemployment, lower wages - this all put people in a desperate state. As part of a middle class family, I would have suffered these consequences along with everyone else. Very likely one of my parents would be unemployed, and probably earning wages that were lower than previously gained. Hitler's promise of a stronger economy and a more powerful and unified Germany would have been very appealing to me. Also, like most people, I am influenced by the media of the time, and I would have been exposed to and influenced by Goebbel's highly effective propaganda campaign. The feeling of hope that Hitler inspired in people, and the feeling of belonging to something greater than just myself, would have influenced my view of the man and his party. However, in spite of these strong influences I know that it would have been difficult for me to actively support Hitler's view on the role of women in Nazi society. To have been expected to dress traditionally and to act in a subservient manner would personally have been very challenging for me. Women not being allowed to participate in politics, and to not be allowed to work in professional roles (such as doctors, lawyers, etc) that they previously enjoyed would have made me angry and resentful. Would I have been active in my support of the Nazi party? I can strongly assert that the answer would be no. I would not have voluntarily been an informant for the Gestapo, and could have never turned in neighbours, colleagues, friends or family. Would I have been anti-Semitic and supported the genocide of millions of people? Again, I can confidently answer no. My personal convictions that all human beings are equal and deserving of kindness, respect and being treated with dignity would not have allowed this. Being raised in a family that strongly values such beliefs would have counter-balanced the attempted indoctrination by the Nazis. So while I would very likely have fallen in on the side of the National-Socialist German Workers' Party, my support would have been silent and inactive. I could never have personally condemned people or contribute to their pain, suffering or loss.
ReplyDeleteExcellent.
DeleteI like how you look at all the different elements. It seems to me, however, that you are transporting your current self back to that time. Would you, for example, feel that female empowerment was important had you not grown up in a society that generally supports such beliefs? You say that, since you grew up in a "family that strongly values such beliefs", you can't imagine supporting their opposite. But you wouldn't have been in such a family had you been a teenager in the early 1930s. You would quite possibly have been exposed to anti-Semitism, traditionalism and nationalism all your life (as would your parents). Are you being a historical revisionist here? It isn't necessarily guaranteed, but I'd like you to think about it.
Considering I am half German and a quarter Ukrainian and Polish with some Gypsy as well, I would not have supported the Nazi regime in Germany due to the association with being in such an influential and powerful party at the time. Certain collectives such as being Romani were placed with the Untermenschen, it would have been unbearable to live in Nazi Germany. However the implications at the time for me would have been were more family oriented due to the fact the father was the head of the house and with having his choice be supported throughout the family, and whatever was chosen typically went. With having a family that supports pacifism the likelihood of us fleeing the country and seeking refuge in another country would be high. As this is what has happened in the past for the Gugenheimer’s, my values and morals would be in line with what they did when the time came to run away, even if it meant dying doing so. The consistent influence of Nazi propaganda would have appeased the majority but in other words I would have fought to stay neutral and blend in (To appear as if we support to ensure our safety). Hitler in his raw form presented a charismatic man little did the Germans know that he was a genocidal maniac, Also his distrust when matters did not fall in his favour, subtly showed his weakness. This goes hand in hand as to why I would not have trusted Adolf and his “gang” towards the “Great Improvements”, Germany is about to take.
ReplyDeleteAddison.Gugenheimer
Excellent.
DeleteGood use of your own family history to draw your conclusions from.
The moment Germany signed the treaty of Versailles, things weren’t looking good for the Germans. With the demise of the Weimar government, an enormous national debt, hyperinflation, and the loss of World War 1, the national pride of the German people had been broken. The German people were hurting. Germans were historically known for their efficiency and being a hardworking people. They were proud of that. With a weak coalition government that did not synch with Germans “straight to the point” approach to life (an authoritarian government would better represent their national way of thinking), the Germans reputation had been badly damaged. Add to this, the beginning of a world-wide depression and the vast majority of businesses in Germany owned by Jews, with their national pride at an all-time low, obviously the German people were upset and looking for someone to save them and solve the many problems they were facing.
ReplyDeleteIf I were a 17 year old German male, living in Germany in the 1930’s I am sure I would have gladly attended a Nazi youth camp and absorbed all the propaganda being taught. All my friends would be joining the Nazi youth organization and I would have as well. After all, I would have seen how my Mother and Father struggled to feed our family, how my Father would return home from work with his hours cut and his wages frozen – a man once dominant and proud to be German, now just a shell of the man he once was, how my older brother could not find a job, and all our relatives and friends were in the same predicament. I would long for order to be restored in our home and in our country. I would soon be eligible to vote and I would want to make a change. The prospect of being a part of something greater than we could imagine was exciting and it would be my chance to be a part of the solution and help our family and the country that I loved. Listening to the speeches of our charismatic leader would start the adrenaline pumping. I wouldn’t be able to wait until I turned 18 so I could join the Schutzstaffel or the Sturmabteilung, because it would mean that I was a part of the solution, I would be a part of making Germany great again. How could anyone not join this movement? I would certainly have to tell my leaders of any opposition to the ‘Führer’. Naturally, turning the shops back to German ownership would be a matter of course.
Joel Ramnath
Excellent.
DeleteThere wasn't much voting in Nazi Germany, but otherwise, this reflects a strong understanding of the pressures on Germans at the time.
The idea that unethical practices such as incest and cannibalism are sinful and outrageous acts are wrong and unjust is very true. However, history has shown us that some of these practices and ideas were once accepted or not taken so seriously. The self-portrait made that every human knows right from wrong is a symbol of our obliviousness. Nazi Germany consisted of a wide spread population of supporters for the worst totalitarian known in history, Adolf Hitler. So how did people support this man? Well they had no choice. A crude and violent leader, he used a very strategic method in building his army and his majority support. Hitler used indoctrination to brainwash the citizens to thinking what he stood for was only good and all those opposed were the scum of the earth. He took the great man theory and took it a step further, making his image somewhat of a god. Hitler would use terror to instill fear into the dissents who went against the Nazi party. One of the policies Hitler promoted the most was Anti-Semitism. With the help of propaganda, Hitler achieved his goal in scapegoating the hardships of Germany in the Great Depression to be the fault of Jewish population. He controlled every means of contact with the outside world and the inner population. With the help of the police state Hitler had all eyes and ears. No rebellion was achievable. The Great Depression was the demise of Germany. Individuals became desperate in search of new leadership. This played into Hitler’s hand because the nation was now vulnerable in the sense that they were unconscious of what Germany would soon become and the wrongdoing the state would do. The word unconscious is a great word to describe what the population was like because they did not allow Hitler to commence a mass genocide they were completely unaware of it. Hitler would target the promotion from lesser educated people because he knew they would be less likely to underline what his regime really looked like. If I were to have lived in Germany and been the typical looking Aryan, I would've supported the Nazi Party but not under my own control. The indoctrination these citizens went through was so extensive that almost the entire population were brainwashed. I myself being 17 years old would have been one of Hitlers Youth and a part of Hitlers vision of a new generation of Nazis. Hitler was very intelligent and methodical in attacking the brains of the youth. Once the older had died the new generation would be instilled with Hitler’s ideologies and would all bow down to him. At this moment in time my modern-self is against Anti-semitism and everything the Nazi Party stood for. Just like the moderners who believe cannibalism and incest are unjust. However, it is evident we do not have control of what is considered right and wrong in the past and what ideologies were seen as unjust and satanic. What Hitler did is an atrocity at the highest level and should never be forgiven, but his army and all those who obeyed him were a brainwashed cult who were slaves underneath him.
ReplyDeleteExcellent.
DeleteWell argued. There is a school of thought that says that many Germans were not simply indoctrinated, but were supporters because the Nazis reflected what they already believed (albeit in a more extreme way). Anti-semitism, anti-liberalism and ultra-nationalism already existed in pre-Nazi Germany and Hitler simply tapped into it. This is why propaganda was so easy. What do you think?
As I am aware of the methodology and techniques used by the Nazis and Hitler to gain support from his citizens I believe I likely would have been a supporter of the idea of Nazism. Hitler used the economic distress post WWI to his advantage. He promised to abandon the Treaty of Versailles (A treaty many Germans resented) and return glory to Germany. As Germany was a very nationalistic country this was a very appealing claim. During Hitler's rise to power most Germans were unaware of his genocidal ways and simply saw him as a way to stop the struggles Germany was facing. It is at this time that I believe I would have been a Nazi supporter. Once Hitler began to show his murderous ways I like to believe that I would not support his actions and would stand up for what I believe in. However, I know that, like many Germans who were far to aware, there were repercussions and severe punishments for those who opposed Hitler and the Nazi ideologies. Being aware of the aggressive limitations on dissent I believe that I would publicly express support for Hitler and the Nazis when necessary, while keeping my disgust and disapproval to myself. I would never turn in any family or friends for talking or acting against the Nazis as I, myself would feel the same way. Similarly, I would never use the Jewish population of Germany as a scapegoat for the problems in Germany. Meaning I would be a Jewish sympathizer, internally hating the way the general German public was treating them. However, my strong desire for survival would restrict and limit me from openly resenting the Nazis and their actions. Knowing the power of indoctrination in manipulating the general public I would never share my negative opinions of the Nazis with anyone as I know no one could be trusted. If asked by anyone I would immediately lie and claim that I am full fledged supporter of Hitler as a technique of self preservation. I would admire anyone who publicly dissented the Nazis and they would receive my silent support. I believe though this is how I know I would act, I would not be content with staying quiet and would struggle to keep my opinion to myself as the monstrosities of Hitler continued to multiply.
ReplyDeleteExcellent.
DeleteUpon what basis to you base the idea that you would be immune to the charms of Hitler's charisma and indoctrination? I don't deny your position, but I wonder why you think that you would be able to critically assess the Nazi ideals and be able to resist the indoctrination.
As someone who views themselves to be quite far left on the spectrum on most, if not all issues, I would not have supported Hitler and the Nazi regime. That said, I value the lives of my family members and my own life more than fighting to overturn a totalitarian system that I would have had no way of defeating. I understand that this may be seen as cowardice when compared to the acts of Sophie Scholl or August Landmesser, but it is simply rational thought. While the conservative ideals would have chafed, I understand that should I have tried to defy those in power by rejecting my place as an aryan woman the only thing I would have achieved is punishment not only for myself, but those around me as well. What good would I be dead, or worse, as the stories of dissenters only provided the Nazi regime with more footage for fear propaganda. While I vehemently disagree with the practices of book-burning, indoctrination, and a system based on white ultranationalism, what is one seventeen year old girl to do?
ReplyDeleteNow, there is also the question of whether or not I would have been prey to the unending waves of propaganda and indoctrination that the citizens of Nazi Germany were prey to. This question is more difficult to answer because if I were living in Nazi Germany at seventeen I would have received a Nazi education. While my family values the same principles as modern liberals and much of my opinion and worldview has been in-part shaped by them, growing up under a Nazi regime would most likely have shaped my worldview in a much different manner. My first paragraph answers the question from a point of view synonymous with the one I've formed growing up in a liberal society, whereas when viewed from the perspective of a young person that has been educated in Nazi policy from a young age there is a real possibility that I would have supported the regime. There is no true way of knowing as I am not a Nazi and never will be-no matter how I try to understand why the German's were so willing to follow the Nazi regime, my view will always be tainted by my entrenched liberal values.
Excellent.
DeleteThe depth of understanding here is marvelous! As you discussed your own political and social beliefs in the first paragraph, I found myself wondering about the degree to which you were falling prey to historical revisionism, and then, exactly when it was needed, you dealt with that issue in paragraph 2. Well done!
Germany at that point in history was in shambles, with millions needed for war reparations and hyperinflation, nationalism between Germans was at a low point. If I was living there I would've most likely noticed adults around me complain about the bad economy and seen important people in my life suffer as well. In my middle class family, the chances of my father not having a job would be high. I would see my parents struggling to put food on the table because prices would just keep increasing. Seeing my family struggle would be enough to make me ask questions, like the rest of Germany, as to why the country is this way. When a man like Hitler who possesses charisma comes up with solutions on how to fix the country’s problems, I wouldn’t be surprised if believed him and began to support him. My parent’s would most likely support the Nazis too and let me become a part of the Band of German Maidens. With mine and my parent’s beliefs the easier it would be to indoctrinate me even more into thinking of Hitler as some type of god. So I have lived in Germany during the 1930s, I would have supported the Nazis. Now with that said I probably would’ve been Anti-Semitic but be very uncomfortable with treating my Jewish friends badly at the same time because of the values I’ve been taught since I was young.
ReplyDeleteExcellent.
DeleteI wonder why you believe that you would have been susceptible to the economic arguments (and indoctrination) of the Nazis but not the anti-Semitic ones. After all, wouldn't your values ("taught since [you] were young") reflective of German and Nazi society too?
Due to the circumstances in Germany at the time, and I was part of the Aryan race according to Hitler, I would have been a Nazi. The charisma of Hitler, the way he convinced the German citizens to turn on the people who they worked with, befriended, were neighbors with to be able to convince them shows how influential he was. The reasoning behind this is because during the desperate times in Germany, I like many other Germans, would want change and wanting someone to blame for all the despair Germany was going through. I would be a Nazi because I would want the best for my family and friends and not having anything horrible done to them. Even if I was not a true believer, I would do my best to convince the Gestapo and true believers that my family and I were. As the saying goes, "desperate times call for desperate measures" but also I would put my family ahead of my beliefs. During that time there are probably some things I would believe in. Such as mostly anything Hitler would say because of charm and charisma as a speaker and political leader. Because he would convince many Germans of what he believed in, I would fall into that group. Blaming the Jews, trying to make Germany a powerhouse again are some examples I would believe in. Participating in the execution of Jews and political prisoners, the Holocaust, and concentration camps are too far for me and I would like to think that I would not want to be involved in that during that time.
ReplyDeleteExcellent.
DeleteGood job. It really is hard to imagine being racist and supporting violence against those we disagree with. That is probably the most difficult aspect of this exercise.
After learning about the reasons for Hitler and the Nazi’s support, I understand why people chose to follow the ideology. For many citizens in Germany, Hitler had answers and solutions during a hard time. I would have most likely supported Nazism at this time as what they supported seemed to be in favour of “making Germany great again”. The appeal of abandoning the Treaty of Versailles after the Great Depression was very reassuring during these times. As Aryans, citizens were receiving what they asked for and were unaware of the idea of genocide, causing major support. I too would support him if I did not know about the murdering. Once I became aware of the punishments I would no longer support him, but may have acted as though I did so the harsh consequences for opposing the ideology would not happen to me. I understand the fear that drove many people to continue to support Nazism, although they may not have agreed. Publicly I would have supported Hitler, but never would have turned against my family and friends for any reason. If I had the choice between using the Jewish as a scapegoat and blaming Hitler, I would blame Hitler. Although I would not express my thoughts publicly, I would not take action against anyone else for their views. With that being said, if my life and well-being depended on losing my tolerance I would have given it up. As a result of not being able to trust anyone because of the Gestapo, I would have kept my thoughts to myself to limit the possibility of any true Nazi supporters finding out my real thoughts and punishing me. I would be fully aware of the indoctrination of people to support Nazism and would not believe what I was being taught as it was an opinion, not actual fact. Secretly, I would support those brave enough to be a dissenter because I know I believe in what they do, but would never have the courage to stand up for my beliefs. Overall, I believe initially I would support Hitler and Nazism because of the ways they helped Germany recover, but once Hitler’s actions became violent I would stop my support privately, but not fully publicly in order to save myself.
ReplyDeleteExcellent.
DeleteWell thought-out and expressed.
I'm not pure Aryan which would automatically force me to be against the Nazi party but I will pretend I am for the purpose of the question. I believe without a doubt I would end up in the Nazi party but how enveloped in it would depend on a few things. If I was enrolled in the Hitler Youth I probably would've became a very loyal Nazi. The way the Hitler youth is described seems like it would appeal to all the things I enjoyed as a kid. The sense of belonging to something and the physical activities would’ve been things I would love and most likely make me clueless to the propaganda they would be feeding me. If my parents were against Nazi ideologies they may sway my support for the Nazis a little bit but in the end the propaganda would win over; there would just be too much. I'm not sure I would ever go as far as to turn in my own parents but I would definitely become an average Nazi supporter. If my parents also support the Nazis I could see myself becoming a member of the Gestapo. I would never be able to be the one to actually cause physical harm to dissenters but I would have no problem informing others so they could do it for me. However, if I wasn’t enrolled in the Hitler Youth and my parents weren’t Hitler supporters I would grow up supporting the Nazis a lot less or maybe not supporting them at all. I know for certain that I would never attempt to resist the Nazis, for fear of being taken or murdered in my sleep, even if I despised the party. Therefore I would still pretend to support the Nazis. My range of passion for the Nazi party could vary a lot based mostly on circumstance but in the end I would always end up a supporter. I tried my best to keep my modern ideologies out of my comment although i'm not sure how well I did, let me know if you think I've shown too much bias somewhere.
ReplyDeleteExcellent.
DeleteI'm glad you are aware of the problem of historical revisionism. You seemed quite honest. It's a difficult process because we naturally think well of ourselves and wouldn't want to believe that we could act like a Nazi. But the truth is that many Germans would have answered this way as well, and look where many of them ended up. It is this type of response to desperate circumstances that led to the result in the American election that many are shocked at.